Michael Skubala interview: ‘I didn’t realise how big Leeds was – when I left, I definitely knew’

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If Illan Meslier had been more aware of where his near post was, you wonder how different the fates of Leeds United and Michael Skubala might have been.

Everton, 18th, were hosting Leeds, 17th, in a Premier League relegation ‘six-pointer’ on February 18, 2023. Skubala was in the away dugout, managing his third game as Leeds’ interim head coach having stepped up from his usual role in charge of their under-21 side.

Midway through the second half, home captain Seamus Coleman made a run from deep, beat Robin Koch to Alex Iwobi’s lofted pass and hit it first time, three yards from the byline.

Leeds goalkeeper Meslier had left a four-yard gap between himself and that near post. The ball sailed past him into the net as he stood still, rooted to the spot and dumbfounded. Everton won the match 1-0 and Leeds ended the day 19th in the table, two points and two places from safety.

Chairman Andrea Radrizzani felt he had to act.

Javi Gracia was drafted in before the next match and Skubala dropped back down into his coaching staff.

©aptain ©lutch. pic.twitter.com/BVlcT4PTTY

— Everton (@Everton) February 18, 2023

Everton were the better team that day, but if that goal had not gone in and Leeds had got a point at Goodison Park, the building blocks were there for Skubala. He had already overseen two encouraging performances (an away draw and a home loss) against Manchester United in the preceding fortnight.

Skubala was keen to see the job out until the end of the season and he thinks taking something away from that trip to Everton would have secured him that post.

“By not getting a result there, it puts pressure on other people in the building and more panic,” Skubala says. “That’s what happens in a relegation battle. People think it’s just the team. It’s not, because (of the) millions you lose, (the) clubs you lose. It’s a big deal, isn’t it?

“It would have been a really big decision to stick with me. It was a really big decision not to stick with me. It’s a really big decision to change because of all the finances and what’s involved in football at that level if you get relegated.

“You know now (because of Leeds’ failure to rebound from the Championship at the first time of asking last season) if you come out of the Premier League, it’s not as easy to get back up.”

Skubala oversaw a 2-2 draw at Old Trafford (Naomi Baker/Getty Images)

Skubala is speaking to The Athletic at Lincoln City’s plush £1.3million ($1.7m) training ground. This has been Skubala’s workplace for the past 16 months, where he has been leading the League One side.

The money for the development was generated by the now third-division club’s run to the FA Cup quarter-final in 2016-17 as a fifth-tier, non-League outfit. It was spent on facilities rather than signings. The ownership’s wider perspective appealed to Skubala when he took the head coach job in November 2023.

His run as Leeds’ interim head coach and the exposure it provided saw job offers land in his inbox. Nothing suited him until he met the people running Lincoln. He says he moved to Sincil Bank (currently known as the LNER Stadium thanks to a sponsorship deal) because of the leadership of chairman Clive Nates, chief executive Liam Scully and director of football Jez George. The recruitment process was reassuringly rigorous. It was enough to prise him away from the under-21 head coach position at Thorp Arch.

That itself was a role Skubala had waited for when he came to Leeds in July 2022. He was working with England’s under-18s and had been looking for an under-21 position in the top flight.

“Some of them didn’t feel right, and I wasn’t sure, but I knew the rich history of Leeds,” he says. “You only have to go into the club (to see) the feel of the club and the size of a club. If you’re going to work in a club, it doesn’t have to be the best club. You feel the responsibility for youth development. You only have to look at that board (of academy graduates) and think you want to bring players through. You want to be part of that history.”

Archie Gray and Mateo Joseph are two of the standout names from that first year Skubala had with Leeds’ youngsters.

He recalls playing Gray at right-back, to some odd looks, in a Premier League 2 game at Aston Villa in that first August. A year later, Daniel Farke made the same switch with the same player in the club’s first team. Joseph is still with Leeds and remains one of the academy kids Skubala admired most during their time together: “It’d be great to see him, one day, even push through and be a starter, even get to the Premier League. I know he wants to do that. I wouldn’t bet against him.”

Skubala’s time with Gray, Joseph and the under-21s was curtailed by first-team business. After a run of two wins in 17 matches, head coach Jesse Marsch was sacked on February 6, 2023. While the club looked for a permanent replacement, Skubala was made interim boss.

“Jesse went, and they needed someone to steady the ship, support, (and) try to drive it,” he says. “They knew what I’d done with the under-21s. They knew the coaching, knew that would be no problem. I had connections with the players.

“The senior pros were fantastic at the time. I still speak to Coops (Liam Cooper) over messages. Luke Ayling and Pat (Bamford), all those senior players are top players and good people. What they did in their career and getting the club there (to the Premier League), it can’t be underestimated how hard they worked for that badge.

“I know when Bill (Ayling’s nickname) and Liam left recently, it hurt. Klichy (Mateusz Klich) and people did so much stuff for that club, at that point, to try to get it back in the Premier League. It’s tough. It’s really tough.”

Skubala is now in charge at Lincoln, who are 12th in League One (Pete Norton/Getty Images)

Skubala made a good impression. He had two days to prepare a demoralised group for a trip to Old Trafford. Wilfried Gnonto scored inside 60 seconds and Leeds were two goals up not long after half-time. It was the resurgence the fans needed to see, even if the hosts did peg them back to 2-2 by full-time.

That was followed, unusually, by the reverse fixture at Elland Road four days later (the game in Manchester had been postponed from the weekend the previous September when all matches were called off following the Queen’s death). Skubala thinks his side were on top for 60 minutes of that game before late strikes by Marcus Rashford and Alejandro Garnacho delivered an away win. He may have been fighting fires, but the interim coach wanted to make the right impression.

“I made sure of little things,” he says. “I spoke to the comms team and said, ‘Look, this is a massive game for Leeds United fans. I have to respect the game. What can I say right and what can I say wrong?’. I made sure not to call them ‘United’. I had to call them Manchester United. Little things. I wanted to have the respect of the fans by not getting things wrong.”

While Skubala was overseeing those games with Manchester United and Everton, director of football Victor Orta was pursuing Andoni Iraola and Arne Slot on the continent as a full-time replacement for Marsch. The latter looked closer to signing than the former, but neither joined in the end. Orta was short of both time and suitable candidates. The Everton loss forced Radrizzani’s hand, and Gracia is where they ended up.

Gracia delivered 10 points from his first six games. Leeds were up to 13th in the table, still only two points above the drop zone, but with four teams between them and danger. Then came a watershed moment.

Leeds hosted Crystal Palace, who had won one of their previous 13 matches. Gracia’s side converted one of seven shots on target in the first half. Marc Guehi then profited from sloppy set-piece defending to level on the stroke of half-time. Nothing in that opening period signalled the Londoners would then score four unanswered goals in the second half.

Left shellshocked by the experience, Leeds took one point from the next 12 on offer with an aggregate deficit of 13 goals to four. As several players have said since, Skubala does not recall any half-time issues. Ultimately, he feels the chasm between the philosophies of Marsch and Gracia was too great a leap to make successfully midway through a season.

Leeds suffered a significant home loss to Palace in April 2023 (Stu Forster/Getty Images)

“Players are like kids sometimes, with fresh ideas, fresh voices, fresh this, fresh that,” he says. “That wasn’t from me, but it was like, ‘New manager in, I’ve got to sit up and take notice a little bit more’.

“You saw that, but like most clubs, when they have a bounce, they then level out. You see that in any league, in any club. That’s where this club’s (Lincoln) great — more long-term thinking, rather than just a short-term boost.

“For me, it was just a complete swing of how we were built playing to how the new style was. You go from more of a Red Bull style, aggressive (Marcelo) Bielsa style, to a positional style. The two identities and what the players had been doing over a certain amount of time didn’t meet enough.”

Leeds sacked Gracia too, with four games to go. Sam Allardyce followed — as did relegation. Skubala learned plenty from Marsch, Gracia and Allardyce, even if it did end up as a doomed campaign. With Farke’s arrival that summer, Skubala returned, happily, to his under-21 brief.

He saw first-hand just how challenging that summer of transition was. Skubala noted the more minor changes the new manager instigated, such as an interior overhaul of the training ground’s reception. It was all, as far as Skubala saw, an effort to shake off the stench of relegation.

“It was a tough summer to manage,” he says. “I learnt a lot seeing how he managed that, being strong with players on the way in, which was good. You can see now that he has good relationships with the lads.

“Some of them, I look back and think, at the time, there was a bit of toing and froing with agents, but he’s built relationships. How he uses his staff. He’s got some experienced staff he trusts. They’re a brilliant staff. There’s lots of little things that make a big impact.”

Skubala packed a lot into his 16 months in West Yorkshire. One of the key lessons he took to Lincoln from his time with Leeds was the difference football clubs can make to a supporter’s daily life.

“I look at it as a brilliant chapter,” he says. “I loved it: loved the fans, loved the club, loved the staff, loved the stadium staff. I’m one of those people that, quietly, tries to build relationships with people and respects them, whether they’re a cleaner or whether they’re the head coach. I value everybody’s input into the club. I say that to the players here: ‘Sign a shirt, because it makes a big difference’.

“The biggest thing you learn about being around Leeds (the club) is how it makes the biggest difference to people’s lives. We sometimes can underestimate that because we work in it. But, actually, there are so many people that just live for the Saturday or live for the Tuesday or live for Mateo (Joseph) to say ‘Hello’. It could change their lives.

“Underneath it all, that’s the bit I’ll probably learn with Leeds. I loved to walk anywhere in the country and someone would come and chat to me. When I went to Leeds, I knew it was a big club, but I didn’t realise how big it was with the fanbase. When I left, I definitely knew.”

(Top photo: Naomi Baker/Getty Images)

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